I think a sub 3 hour run on the course will be extremely tough but possible with the right person.  Very very few people could do it.  Maybe a handful in my mind.  I ran just over 1:37 through the half and felt good, but the 2nd half is WAY more difficult than the first and of course it was hotter by then.  Even if I had not run off course, I think I would have run the second half at least 5-10 minutes slower.  My goal after I ran miles 14 and 15 was to break 3:30 (yes, I had been thinking course record before that!) which I think was possible, although I'm not in great shape so who knows.  The heat got to me by mile 20 so I suffered the last 10k.  I'm just getting back into running after 2 years off (I ran Western States in 2009 and then faded back into real life - work, family etc).  I appreciate that you think I would have won - I do too, but I had such a great time it really doesn't matter. 

On who could do it?  One guy who I think could do it and might be up for it is Mike Wardian.  He's a super fast guy who has run back to back 2:20 marathons on weekends (i.e. Saturday-Sunday) and has run probably 2 dozen marathons in the low 2:20's.  He's a freak of nature of sorts.  He just ran 2:17 at Grandma's in Duluth and I think he's in his early to mid 30's - lives outside of DC in Virginia.  He also runs ultras (has won the 100k road championship, ran Marathon de Sables etc) so I think Madison might appeal to him.  I know him through a good friend of mine who runs the very popular ultra-website (inrunfar.com) and could make an intro.  I could also make the intro to inrunfar.com - which if you don't know it is a super popular ultra/trail running site.  He would be able to give you GREAT exposure.  In fact, we might be able to swing it that I could write a review/race report that he might post.  Just let me know if you want the intro.  (I'm fairly well known in ultras - at least was a few years ago - because I came in 5th at Western States and 2nd at the Vermont 100, and have won a couple other ultras).

I think your best bet is to pay someone's way out there to get them to do it.  Or, since you are tied to the MCEDC, you can offer up some free weekend resort lodging, skiing etc.  I think that type of thing might get some folks.  The money folks (i.e. Kenyans, elites etc) probably are not that interested in the type of course you offer - you want ultras guys.  To that end, you might even get irunfar.com to market the "come break 3 hours and win [x]" - just not sure because he really doesn't do a lot of promo.  I could try to check with him.  If you want to pull in any national sponsors - shoe companies, socks, nutrition etc. I could help you with that but as you know that could change the feel of the race. I'd love to help you make more of the race.  It is a true jewel and so is the area.  Best destination race I've done.  Of course if other fast guys go then I'll never win . . . .but I guess that's ok :-)  (I'm off to Leadville next month - Madison was just supposed to be altitude training . . . ) Thanks again for a fantastic time.

BTW, the only recommendations I would make is definitely and earlier start (even if just 30 mins, but an hour would be even better), more/better swag (runners love that stuff) and find a way to get rid of the horse flies!!  Maybe a little more support/water in the second half.  And from a personal perspective, I would chalk the intersection where I made the wrong turn.  My own fault (and not the first time I've been leading a race and run off course . . . ) You should let folks know who is running 1/2, relay and full.  I figured it out by asking folks and looking at numbers but you should let folks know.  Maybe start 1/2 marathons after marathon. I would like that better, not sure about others.

The website is absolutely top notch. Oops, probably more than you wanted.


Joni Van Arsdale, Billings, MT
Thank you so much for a wonderful race. The panoramic scenery was breathtaking. My favorite part was running into Larry Macon around mile 20 and being able to spend time with him in those last 6 miles. We kept stopping to sit down since his back hurt. It was such a privilege for me to just talk to such a running icon. I will always remember the Madison Marathon with such delight. If I muster up the courage to do the race again, I will certainly be volunteering since it seems like you guys had fun.  Tell your parents that I especially liked them and how they sprayed me w/bug spray. It made a world of difference!  Your mom especially made me feel better.  The young man at the aid station at mile 13 made all the difference, too. I wanted to quit. He was so friendly and helpful. Thanks again to you Sam. You are one amazing guy for all you do. P.S. I also loved the sayings on the mile markers. I read every one and made a mental note of many. 


Vincent Ma, San Jose, CA
Thank you for organizing the race - I had a great time! I should have taken your offer and stayed at your home, as the overnight acclimation didn't seem to help after 10 yards, when we started climbing the first hill; and it was cold at night up on the hill. The most surprising aspect certainly was lack of a lot of hills at high elevation:-) Thank you for all the hard work! Cheers


Gerald Joest, Billings, MT
Fun times for sure. Any race that makes me puke, I love! LOL!


Rick Bachor, California
Thanks again Sam for the great race. This is my year for trying first races like this one. I have never run at altitude. Quite challenging but well worth the trip.


John Thomson, St. Maries, ID
Thank-you for a great race. I have so much fun and the course is so beautiful. I will be back forever.


Scott McMurtrey, Pullman, WA
Thanks, Sam. You put on a good show. :)


Dee Metrick, Bozeman, MT
First of all, I want to let you know that you did a great job with the marathon.  I loved the course and the happy vibe and the weather.  Thanks, especially, for such great weather.


Cynthia Witman, Walla Walla, WA
Now this run is not just a dream and a vision, but a memory with glorious scenery behind my eyes. Thank you for putting this on. I'm thinking of Larry...no way could I run SLC today! As it was, I drove til 2am, luckily 1am Pacific Time, to make work today, so please pass on to Jeff once again that I'm grateful for his letting me be an early starter.


Brent Hildebrand, Frenchtown, MT
Thanks for putting on such a beautiful and memorable race! I really enjoyed talking to all the interesting runners and taking in the absolutely amazing scenery! The volunteers were all so friendly and helpful too. I do have a couple suggestions to make the race even better in the future. 

The first is to have marathoners do the out & back portion of the race at the start. You would be able to have all runners start at the same place, but the marathoners run away from the finish, in the opposite direction as the halfers, to start the race. The marathoners would do a similar out and back turnaround, and then finish with the 1/2 marathon course. This would eliminate traffic congestion and dust inhalation for marathoners on the second half of the course while 1/2 marathoners are driving home. This reduction in car traffic on the course would also make support for struggling marathoners much easier. While I don't know what the road looks like going 6.5 south of the starting line, I really think this would be a huge improvement. Especially running on a dirt road in the mountains, it was sometimes hard to give passing vehicles adequate room. The road shoulder was sometimes very soft or rocky, and some portions of the road were very dusty. 

My other suggestion would be to do a little more for those last struggling runners. It was very clear from the description of the race that this race is limited support and most of us did fine, but I still felt so bad for those last runners still on the course. At mile 23 or so for me, I stopped to tip up the water cooler (which was almost empty) for a woman who was still on her way out to the turnaround and thus just at mile 16. We also gave water to the runner with the prosthesis when I was on my way home and he was still trudging along. I know this is really a man power issue so next year I'll try to round up a few volunteers to help on race day!

Over all though, a great and memorable race. After an accident a few years ago I didn't know if I'd ever be able to do anything like this again, and to run 26.2 on what feels like the top of the world, and have my daughter and family meet me at the end was so wonderful I can't put it to words. Thanks for putting on such an amazing event. One last thing: who was the Wheaties box runner?


Bryan Bradshaw, Butte, MT
You did a great job on the race. I appreciate all of the hard work that you and the volunteers did.  It was a great experience.  Thanks again for putting on a great race.  


Eric Klaphake, Bozeman, MT
Great race again, at least from the half-marathon point of view.

Two thoughts...

1). Overall, would be better to continue starting race earlier, I think especially for the marathoners. Most people would either camp or stay in Ennis to do it quite willingly I bet. Horse flies didn't start swarming until about 10am for me. The sun is pretty brutal for the marathoners too. Usually sleep the night before is less important than the night before that anyways.

2). I felt really bad for the marathoners, in that leaving after the half-marathon, everyone drives past them, kicking up dust or sitting behind them making them nervous or needing to look behind them. Not sure how to change and maybe racers did not mind, but reconstructing their course to get them off the exit road might be something to consider. Might be hard though logistically for water stations. Just being picky!


AJ Chlebnik, West Yellowstone, MT
As always, this was a great race! The aid stations were well placed and organized, and with 200 people, the atmosphere was a lot of fun. I had a great run, once again beating my previous time for this course, which is always my goal. The Madison Half Marathon is a great challenge. I am always more tired and sore after this race than any other half marathon I do, and truthfully, it drains me more than most full marathons. Other runners are great, going out of their way to make sure those of us wearing headphones knew when traffic was coming. I had my headphones turned down, so I could hear it, but it was great to see the concern by other runners for the welfare of the group. It was a beautiful day as well! A couple suggestions for next year:

1. You mentioned that you might require those not camping to take the shuttle in the morning. I would suggest doing this. We drove ourselves, but certainly wouldn't mind staying overnight in Ennis and taking the shuttle to help reduce traffic on the course. There seemed to be A LOT of traffic this year, especially for the poor marathoners. I was coughing up dust for several hours after the race! Is there any creative way to reduce it? Any other solution for the relay teams to get from point to point as well? 

2. It would be awesome if the race could start on time. It was great to have an earlier start time, but some of the benefit was lost because we started 20 minutes late. (Although it was great to have the porta-potties and buses leave before the runners started!)

3. If there a way to allow past runners and local runners to sign up a little early (like a "grandfathered-in" policy)? It's great that the race is getting so much recognition, but we're a little worried that in a couple of years we won't be able to get in to one of our favorite local races! Maybe provide a day of registration or a certain number of spots for previous runners?

The volunteers for this race were exceptional! Thanks to all of them from the West Yellowstone runners (at least the four of us I knew about) for their help and hard work! :-) Overall, the race was great! The volunteers were excellent and we had a lot of fun. Looking forward to seeing you next year at the 5th annual Madison Marathon! (Maybe I'll do the full!)


Lora Tennant , Bozeman, MT
Thanks again for you and your crew's hard work at putting together such a beautiful and amazing race.  What a way to introduce all those out-of-state folks to Montana.  I run races for their scenery and great people and the Madison Marathon had an abundance of both! Thanks again.  I had at great time and hopefully will be back to run the full marathon next year!


Rachael Baker, Wilson, WY
This was a wonderful event and will definitely be back.


David Summerfield, Bozeman, MT
Hi Sam - again, things went very smoothly - a great job.  In looking over the Ridge Run - I realize that you've done quite a job in getting this race to where it is this quickly.  The Ridge Run stayed very small the first many years.  So, the need for organization could grow very slowly.  You've had to go from 90 to 200 overnight!!   With time, you'll be having people knocking on your door to help out (well, I know you do already - but you'll be able to count on it).  My comments are based on a runner finishing in around 6 hours. 
And something tells me you already know everything I'm about to say!

1.  Great course - but....it got really tricky after leaving Clover Meadows for the full marathoners who were in the back of the pack.  By then, all the 1/2 marathoners wanted to leave, and so there was a pretty steady line of traffic that had to pass us.  The road was dusty - hence lots of clouds of dust to swallow.  (and, many cars were also coming up the road, so they had to pass each other - and then there were the runners.)  What to do???

2.  I noticed that the horse flies didn't start getting bad until near noon, and then they were increasingly offensive.  What to do???

The rest was great.  I carried my own gear/refreshments so I didn't need much support.   The available water was always appreciated on a hot day.  I packed snow at every available snowfield under my hat, so it would melt down my face/neck.  That part was great.  Wheat Montana is also providing us with their high protein bread at our finish line - I question its usefulness at that point in the race.  And only peanut butter to put on it.  After 6 hours on the road, you need something cool and refreshing.  I'll have to devise something else to do with the bread.  It IS good bread.  Maybe have butter, honey, something to get the mouth less dry.

I keep thinking about what would happen if you started the race as you did, but have the marathoners go south for those 6.7 extra miles, (so the 1st 1/2 marathon would be out-and-back,  and then end at Clover Meadows - wouldn't that eliminate all the traffic issues (and dust issues)?  I know there wouldn't be any "running together" as we do now).  Just a thought.  And I know it's hard to start earlier, but it would really help the back of the packers to start before 9am.  You know, I'm always looking for different ways to do everything.  Greatly enjoyed the opportunity to do it - and I've written it up for the August Big Sky Wind Drinker newsletter.  I ran the first 5 miles with Tim from Salt Lake City - the amputee.  We jabbered all the way, and I got to help him out as I drove out at 3pm.  That guy is pretty tough.


Ryan Takeshita, Bozeman, MT
Thanks so much for putting together a fun and unique race.  Aside from the bugs it was a tremendously fun event.
I do have a few comments/improvements:

1)  There was not enough water/Gatorade at the aid stations.  I understand that given the number of people it is hard to anticipate the needs of everyone.  But I think the slower runners suffered for sure because there was not enough water.  I know that you said many times that this is a limited support race so the racers do need to be responsible for themselves.  But given the nature of the race (location and difficulty), it would be good in the future to error on the excessive side and making sure that the aid stations have ample water and are checked if they need refilling.

2)  Signs/direction for the finish line.  As I waited around at the Clover Meadows campground for my relay teammates to make their way through, I noticed some of the runners, both full and half marathon racers unsure as to where to go as they approached the staging area.  Since the finish line was actually up the road of the campground a little bit, many of the 1/2 runners didn't see it from the main road and did not know right away to turn to finish.  Also some of the full marathoners were not sure if they were to continue on the road to complete the second half.  Having a simple sign or a volunteer directing them would have alleviated this.  Again, it is always a racer's responsibility to know the course.  But certainly when you are tired and in a race, your mind is not as sharp as it should be as fatigue sets in.

3) Congestion at the finish line and staging area.  This bothered me the most because of safety concerns.  There were a lot of people around the staging area especially as the 1/2 marathoners were finishing up.  For the most part people were conscientious and stayed out of the way of the runners.  However there were some times when people were standing right in the middle of the main road and the road that lead up to the finish line causing a few runners to have to run around them.  Granted it was just a few extra yards and no one is coming in at an uncontrolled sprint, but as a racer a little frustrating.

Many dogs were not leashed and not even being watched by their owners.  I actually saw one runner accidentally run over someone's dog because the dog ran in front of him.  Both dog and runner were okay, but it could have been worse.  I understand we are in a national forest and of course why would you have your dog on a leash out in nature.  But given the circumstances of the race.  I don't think it would be unreasonable to request dog owners to keep the dog leashed if they are going to be in the staging area where there is a high concentration of people/activity.  If they do have their dog off the leash, then take them away from the finish line/staging area. There was ample room in the campground for dogs to run and be unleashed.

Creating a finishing chute.  Myself as well as most racers like to be able to sprint in and through the finish line.  There seemed to always be people standing within 5 yards of the finish line and when multiple runners finish near each other it makes it even worse.  Some races will have about 10-15 yards past the finish line that is flagged/roped off along the sides so that no one aside from race volunteers and racers are allowed in that area.

Overall I think you did a great job and certainly would like to do this race in the future.  I am on the planning committee for the Bozeman Tritons Triathlons that are taking place in Bozeman this weekend.  So I can appreciate the amount of work that you must have put in to make this race happen.  It is no small feat to be sure, given the difficult logistics that you face with the location of this race.  I wish you continued success and growth with the Madison Marathon.


Melissa Zemlicka, Bozeman, MT
Thanks for a wonderful race experience...I had a great day running.  Since I've returned home, however, my 6 month old puppy decided she really liked the race poster and proceeded to eat it.  Is there a way I could purchase another from you??  Thanks for your help and hard work. MVM was the most incredibly beautiful race I have ever done....you have a fan :)


Natalie Franz, Kennewick, WA
Hi there! Well, first of all, it is a really magnificently beautiful course, and a fun event--there was so much excitement, even with the small group it was very, well, exciting. In general I had a great time. Oh, and the poster and t-shirt were both awesome! Very nice. The photographers were better than I have usually experienced, also, nice mile markers--the elevation was particularly helpful and I did actually laugh out loud at some of the quotes. However, here are my complaints:

1. WAY too many cars on the course. I know you can't stop people from driving on a public road, but you could certainly urge participants and their friends/family/supporters not to drive on the course unless they have to. I found the cars to be very disruptive, and one time I even rolled my ankle while I was getting out of the way (I didn't notice it and was surprised). I get that the team marathoners needed to be shuttled and whatnot, but fewer cars would be better.

2. The thing with the bags and the busses--because it was pretty chilly at the campground but by the time we got to the starting line it was already pretty toasty, it would have been nice to be able to take a bag or something, wear a jacket, maybe eat some snacks on the way up. Other races with a similarly small group of participants and remote location have just gotten a small uhaul-type trailer and had people throw their bags into it, and then emptied the trailer near the finish line. That would be a nice addition I think.

3. Also, the "this is a low-support race" thing was a bit overdone, since there was water relatively often. I think knowing beforehand that the water stations were that often would have been helpful, since people didn't really need to bring their own bottles and stuff. 

4. I know there's no way you'd be able to do anything about this, but a lot of the road was on a bit of a tilt. Running on a sideways road can really suck, and for me, it caused quite a bit of hip pain. So if for some reason a large pile of money falls on you, consider re-grading the road. 

5. A bit more snacks at the finish! I saw bananas and oranges but they were all in bags, and no one was slicing them or anything. Some gatorade bottles, more fruit, some granola bars or something...would have been nice for sure.

6. In my exhaustion-stupor, the flagging at the parking area looked like the finish line. Consider putting a "keep going" sign with an arrow in the direction of the actual finish line. Thanks for a great event and good luck for next year!


David Wingard , Greenville, SC
Good morning, Sam. Thanks for the hard work and effort that you and all the volunteers put forth for your race. As you know, I did three marathons in three weeks: the Mad Marathon in Waitsfield, Vermont; the Half Voyageur Trail Marathon in Duluth, Minnesota; and, of course, the Madison. Vincent Ma also did these same three marathons-we met each other in Mn. I told a friend that it started tough in Vt. went to tougher in Mn., and toughest in Mt. I also had my fastest time in Mt. Don't ask me to explain that one. The course was absolutely as beautiful as any I have run anywhere including Alaska and Hawaii. God did really good when He created Montana! 

A few thoughts: If there could somehow be more food before, during, and after the race. When we board the bus in Ennis at 5:30, start the race around 9:00, and, for some of us who are slower, don't finish until 2:00 or later, it makes for a very long day with nothing to refuel our bodies. The other thing is the cars on the road, especially after the half was over and the full runners had already passed Clover Meadows. They created so much dust and made it somewhat scary when some of them passed a little bit closer than I would have liked. I know there are a lot of restrictions as to what you can and can't do. Perhaps changing the loop after Clover Meadows? For sure, not allowing support people to constantly ride the race course would help. Many of the same people passed me several times. Overall I would say that I enjoyed the race and the course very much and I would consider running this race again. I looked at the times and standing on the attachment and have one concern, the spelling of my name. I believe you have "Dave Wingaurd" and it should be David Wingard. If there is any way you can change this I would be grateful. I'm just worried that the 50 States Marathon Club may not recognize me and give me credit for Montana. That would obviously create a big problem for me later. Thanks again for a great race and for all your hard work.   


Leah Tietz, Helena, MT
Great race! I was not a runner -- my husband ran, my son volunteered and I was largely a spectator. In talking to husband and son, we do have the following recommendations for possible improvements to future races:

Do not have a water station on the inside corner right before the ½ finish.  Our suggestion is to set up a water station for the marathoners  just passed the Meadow turn (halfers don’t need water at this point- they need it just after the finish). It may also help to add  1 or 2 cones  about 20 and 10 yards before the Meadow turn/finish with signage directing halfers to the right /finish and marathoners to the left --- we had numerous people unsure what way they were supposed to go at the Meadow turn/finish as this area was congested with people talking around the water cooler, spraying bug dope, trying to drink etc.   

More water immediately available at each water station. We know the 13 mile station ran out of water several times and the volunteer encountered not-too-happy runners. When we were leaving, we notice the 16 mile (or so) station was empty too.  As we have seen in other races, a local water company (if Ennis has one?) could donate 5-gallon jugs and dispensing racks for each station – plan to overstock and return any unopened bottles rather than risk running out.  This may be much easier than filling the coolers. We also encourage you to contact Hammer Nutrition to donate endurance drink (A Whitefish, MT company that is a great supporter of Montana events!) rather than using Gatorade.  At a minimum adequate water supply and cup supply is needed in future years.  


Barb Cestero, Bozeman, MT
Thanks for all your hard work and organization that went into the marathon. No small feat given the remoteness of the location.  Hope you get a well earned break at some point during the remainder of the summer.  I had a great time and enjoyed the beauty of the run enormously.

In terms of feedback, I think the only thing I'd suggest is to consider starting the marathon earlier (say 8 am) and staggering the start of the half-marathon (they could start an hour later). I know that would mean a super early start for the shuttle from Ennis but it can get pretty dang hot up there at the end of July. The advantage of staggering the marathon and the half-marathon is that it might cut down a bit on the traffic during the second half of the marathon when all the half-marathoners leave. For me that was the only bummer of the race as there was a lot of folks leaving -- something that probably wasn't an issue when there were less than 100 people running the whole thing. Anyway, thanks for putting on such a great, challenging event.  Hope you have a great August. All the best.

Amy Young, Female Full Marathon Runner-up in 2009 - Nashville, Tennesse
This race was a first rate event. The race director, Sam, was extremely hospitable and helpful and was always quick to answer questions. The volunteers and other participants were also wonderful. The race course is challenging, with its ever present hills, you feel like you are constantly either climbing up a hill or coasting down one, but the beauty and the serenity of the mountains make it all worth it. I would recommend this race to anyone! But particularly those who are looking for a true running experience, and not just a race experience. Thanks again to Sam and all the volunteers and other participants. I had a great time and look forward to seeing this race becoming more and more popular in the future (which I have no doubt that it will).

Mimi Anson, Half Marathon Participant in 2009 - Sheridan, Montana
This was a great event. We took the whole family and attempted to walk 1/2 of it... well, we made it to mile 6. That is how it goes with four children under the age of 7 it is a beautiful area, and I must say, we had a really good time. We are looking forward to coming back next year!!!

Bev Johnston, Half Marathon Participant in 2009 - Bozeman, MT
That was truly the most beautiful views I’ve seen! Wish I would have been able to train for this but didn't find out until right before... glad I got the chance to give it a try and will be back next year for sure. Sam- you are awesome! Thanks for helping me when I was lost. Also thanks to the nice guy on the 4 wheeler and also the master griller team who made those yummy burgers.

Sus Bristow, Half Marathon Participant in 2008 - Helena, Montana
To all of you lucky enough to be running the Madison Marathon for the second time, I wish you good luck. To all of you running it for the first time, get ready for one of the most beautiful runs you will ever take. I am sorry that I will not be able to make it this year. I was sorry to hear that the date had been changed to August. I will miss the exhilaration I felt after finishing this one. It felt like a real accomplishment. Something about the challenge of the terrain along with the beauty of the surrounding area made it a very special run for me. Anyway have a great run and enjoy.



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